Hi All;

I've been working on a new style of attacking for special attacks; (GS & BR & AB) for the past year and a half, and we're finally putting it in, as I managed to get some testers in a chat room to do an actual killrun. This has been active on our alpha servers for about a year, but it's somewhat difficult to simulate the dynamics of a server with just a couple people, so we're putting it in now knowing that it will probably be not quite as perfectly balanced as we should like, but knowing that it's not too outrageous either.


The basic premise behind this change is:

1) The number of defending units should matter.
and
2) Attackers should have to "break" a person to some degree.


What this basically means is that, the more of a defending unit you have on hand (even while being successfully attacked) relative to what you're defending (population, buildings, food), the less your losses are.

Also, attacks start slower and ramp up as there are more attacks on that country within 24 hours.


This was primarily aimed at relieving more individual play of the devastating power of a bunch of random attacks if you actually have what could be considered a reasonable defence, while maintaining the ability of alliance-type play to do large amounts of damage; and hopefully to also curtail some of the more rampant abuse of the Attack Again button.

The secondary motivation was to re-enable stonewalling; as more of a defending unit on hand lowers the kill rate, buying up that defending unit immediately will drop the kill rate and extend the run, in theory; how exactly this will be used in drawing things out I'm not sure, but the potential is there.


While I tweaked the numbers to make kills a little easier from what our preview run today was (so I haven't actually tested this particular formula), it should be slightly more difficult than a current killrun. The usual DR and networth modifiers remain in effect.


This will roll out on to ALL servers as they reset; it will be go live on Team effective immediately!


Finally, I must stress the Beta level of these changes; as we've tested it back and forth with some different numbers, but could never quite get a really good feel for it, we know approximately HOW it works, but not exactly what it will do. Please report anything unusual on the Bugs & Suggestions forum, and I will look into them as they come up. Depending on how things go we may tweak things for future resets.


Once again, thanks for all your continued support!


-EE Admin Team

Yes finally some changes! We will see how these changes turn out

Glad i read alliance Forum sometimes.i would have never seen this

cool very cool

interesting... I think....

Abuse of the attack again button? if you put something there that can be clicked fast it will be used... I'd say its being used as it should be unless there is something I dont know about.

Any idea by how much this will increase hits to get a kill?

Wait... so if I send just enough to break someone, I won't get as much land? If I have extra offense laying around, I should send it to get more land? Did landgrabbing on individual servers basically get nerfed here?

I am pretty sure, judging by the title, that this only affects special attacks, not SS and PS.

Ahhh you're right, I'll leave my dumb post up there so everyone can see how bad at reading I am :)

Correct me if i am wrong - this should increase the kill run time and will protect a little bit more our work ( countries ).

are we trying to take away Any war on this game

DD I've seen the numbers IF the person doesn't get online u will kill the country in basically the same amount of turns. This just helps stonewallers as currently unless the killing run is very slow, its very hard to stop it

Are the losses based on specific military (ie. troops for gs) or is it lumped together?

Also with GS, most people are not going to log out with much food on hand so say I am running a farmer and have 0 food when I log off is that going to throw the formula out of wack?

"Also, attacks start slower and ramp up as there are more attacks on that country within 24 hours."

Can you explain that a little more?

+100

DETAH TO ALL TREE HUGGERS!

Go play utopia!

LOL

Sounds like a good change to me

Why not Add in a new attack or a new missle

something like that would be nice to see

Make it easier to kill from my phone!!!!!!! No "attack again" button here man..... WTF!?!?!

or how about add in more to the explore rate

Thanks QZ appreciate your work.

fluff your phone. Oppression of Internet Fridges will not be tolerated.

How will this affect minimum returns? Can we have an example news results of a kill to show us what it would look like?

Nice! Then i should bother trying to log on to wall again!

Atm i wasn't even bothering....

So who got to test this?

did you forget to post the formulas?

also doesnt this risking making wars like tie vs rival not work, or snowball to whoever gets an early lead making kills impossible for the other side

and promote mass coalition style wars?

to me this seems to favour more the wall at very low pop getting much better without making much difference to walling at high pop

since your defence:pop multi is guaranteed to be easier to raise when pop is low, if you can halve gains then it will be way cheaper than halving gains when pop is full

i was hoping for walling to go the other way so that walling would be more desirable early at higher pop

although depending on the weight of total hits per time period (24h?) its possible that increasing pop late will have 0 or little effect particularly if total hits applies DR to the benefit of defence:resource ratio

any plans to implement attack ramping on missiles and spyops as well?

I think spyops should not have a DR or at least it should be a lot higher -_-

It depends enshula. There are a lot of variables when it comes to your hypothesis of the implemented changes. I think we can only see by trial and error if this will work for the community or not.

In the end influx of players is still the most important for this game. Beyond all changes.

Don't get me wrong though I think this is in an interesting change! ;)

We need more protection for our countries. Make killing harder, netting easier.

@koh.

I didnt have attack again button..did a little digging found that when i go to option there will b something for attacks style or something and i use default.

Thank's for all your work

Are you planning on posting the new formula?

no walling = no change
therefore
walling = more hits to kill

therefore 1 waller in small war matters more than 1 waller in big war

tempo is slowed down x amount but only given walling

therefore it promotes potentially silly coalition conflicts to increase critical mass and reduce hassle

basically my position is warring and netting should be made casual friendly at a moderate level, not exactly top 100 or winning, but higher than what wed expect a newbie to start at

this for warring promotes the opposite of that

enshula: it *should* be better to buy up first; as it will dramatically lower the pop lost at the start, which is the larger portion, meaning you should end up with more population left by the time you hit 5civ/hit; at least, that's my gut feeling, again, we've not conducted a whole war with it.

Part of the point is that buying more troops early is good *even if* it's not enough to stop them from breaking. At least, that was part of the idea; also that a well-built country is better than not. If you have 0 tanks and get AB'd it should look somewhat similar to a current run, but if you have like 10k tanks on 1k buildings it should take 10-30 hits to ramp UP to what we would consider a normal AB run. Again, just gut feeling numbers, I modelled it all in excel, but the NW parameters and other standard parameters mess with my numbers a bit, so we'll need to see it in action to do final tweaking probably.

synoder: losses are applied on a per-unit basis, and based on the defending unit for that attack; so if you have 0 turrets or 0 food for a GS, that won't affect the rest of the stuff; you'll just lose 0 food; if you have 0 troops, that WILL cause you to lose more food though (or pop)

Are you planning on posting the new formula?

it's highly unlikely we'll post any war-related formulas, as has been our policy thus far.

something else i thought of now to add to this change (as folks have complained about this creating a disincentive to be a breaker) is to make a portion of killed military/pop/whatever be turned into "slave labour" or something and positively impact your output for some number of turns. I haven't thought deeper than this msg though because I am highly busy with work :p

nice to finally get this in though, thx qz :)

There was a minor bug earlier which has since been fixed.

Just to be clear, this won't actually affect the send-again button; but it will allow walling to be more effective. We will probably have other methods of dealing with super-fast KR's sometime in the future.

tying it to my idea above, attacking quickly could make you take less from your opponent because you don't have time to loot the spoils

A simple method to stop super fast KRs in to drop readiness SIGNIFICANTLY, say 5-10% drop each hit when hits are within 3,5, 10 seconds, pick a number. I think I recall you did something like that already, I don't know for sure.

If you get enough people to join in it would still be fast, otherwise I think this will slow it down.

Yea crest that's one of our ideas still; it's semi-implemented on a beta server, we may put it out there again in the future, but it wouldn't be like how it was before.

Readiness is already terrible enough, how about another less severe way.

So we make it even harder to kill untagged suiciders? How is this a useful change?

Did you read the part about the ramp up for AB/BR/GS's ?

I am not quite sure what that means, can you explain it for me?

yeah what is this ramping up thing?

I read this as: it takes a few turns first before the full population damage kicks in. You'll just destroy less pop-per-hit for the opening break, while you destroy the defending army and until the defender's mil is lowered / broken.

This is fake :P

oh ok, that kinda makes sense as long as the military losses are the same as usual.

what about the 24hr part?

Rushes were a part of the game before the attack again button, and they'll be part of the game if the attack again button goes away.

I predict some unforseen consequences and other stuff such as netgaining alliances possibly being caught off guard and losing a war quickly, because they can't take advantage of this and their aggressive opponents that FSed them can.

I have yet to see an attack again button lol just found the option in preferences but I'll stick to my current method