Deleting people countries because they post on the B&S board? Have you lost your fluffing mind?

What exactly are you talking about?

The backstory is that VivaNick had a friend give him an o-leech. Viva then attacked bakku's country and his friend attacked bakku's country twice after, within 10 minutes of each other. bakku had the best country on the server and this ruined his round, and this isn't the first time Viva and his friend tag teamed a country (they also did it to Xinhuan's first place country two rounds ago, and do it in Tournament most rounds).

Anyway, two players decided to police this behavior and went at VivaNick and his friend. The two players got deleted today. I don't know who it was but I'm thinking Rockman and Chewi.

http://forums.earthempires.com/...n-t-going-to-go-over-well

I'm not sure what rule those two broke but unless it was playing from the same IP or sending vulgar messages, that's pretty out of touch moderation to delete those two guys. Do the mods realize the two people they went after were working together also, and that's why they went after them?

And how does this square with last set, and bug's teamwork being allowed? He privately invited people to farm him, while he continued to attack for acres himself, and admitted it on the forums, all without being deleted. He passed tens of thousands of acres to his friends, and was allowed to do so.

It just seems of all the people that could get deleted for "team play," the silliest possible choice was made, if that is indeed what the deletion was for.

I have no idea what they were deleted for, I have nothing to do with moderation =/ you'd have to ask primary mods.

And it had nothing to do with posting on forums. =/

qz, isn't there a location on the mod forums or something where the mods can report to the admins on their deletion decisions?

Or is it entirely at the mod's discretion and they don't have to file a report where you can access and read (if say 1 month later, you want the information)?

I find it weird you would say you don't know what they were deleted for - something a game admin should have access to.

At the time I hadn't looked into it; there are deletion notes stored yes; they say:

"AB organize KR on 229"

It's at the mods discretion though; they ask second opinions if they're not sure on the boards; but usually amongst themselves and with martian; I tend to not get involved unless it's a new situation, as I'm not the one who actually has to enforce the rules heh.

Vivanick and his "friend" didn't get deleted for organized topfeeding, but when players fight back against 'cheaters', they get deleted for using the same tactics that the 'cheaters' used?

Either there is a double standard, and Vivanick and his friend should have been deleted weeks ago, or Chewi and his friend got deleted for Chewi posting on the B&S forum about how ABs in primary were too weak with these new attack changes. It appears that it was the former, not the latter. In that case, I expect that Chewi and his friend be reinstated and an apology given to Chewi, Bakku, and his friend. Whereas Vivanick and his friend both should get deleted.

And given the way that Hanlong had his past countries removed, I expect that all of Vivanick's previous countries be removed from the top scores lists. As many can testify, this is not the first time that he has used these tactics against other top players. It was because of this being a repeated occurrence that Chewi and another person took it into their own hands to pick a fight with Vivanick and Vivanick's "friend."

Those who have had finishes ruined by Vivanick's actions in the past are left with no recourse, unfortunately.

Their actions must be reported if they're to be considered, moderators don't watch the news 24/7; Report behaviours you think are inappropriate, they will get looked at then.

I don't believe there's a double standard, but there are different levels of obviousness. Again, I'm not moderating the game, but if a moderator doesn't have something reported, it's probably not going to receive attention. Keep in mind, moderators are barred from playing the server they moderate, so they're naturally somewhat less in tune with it than people playing.

I've reported it in the past, and been told that players could no longer be deleted for team play after the "spirit of the rules" clause was removed.

I report it all the time as well. It always goes unaddressed, and now it doesn't. I can't believe the two guys fighting against the most habitual offenders are the ones to get deleted! I *favor* deleting for this type of stuff but not if it isn't enforced with common sense.

Just cherrypicking here, but it doesn't matter that the admins deleted Hanlong's country from the reset before he was caught cheating when just about EVERY ALLIANCE HOSTING SITE still has his country in their database. I don't think anyone took steps to correct that mistake.

If Chewi suicides on Galleri (or whichever mod it was that deleted him) on a different server, and then threatens to run bots in EE, will you do anything to him? Because the last time someone suicided a mod because they got deleted on a different server, and then threatened to run bots in EE, you did nothing at all. But there is a clear double standard here...

I thought we deleted cross-server for that? Are you referring to people suiciding Slagpit in FFA for something in another server?

Yep, when Slagpit got suicided in FFA, the guy who suicided him threatened to run bots on EE.

Since I have seen no announcements stating otherwise the primary mod doesn't consider it cheating.



From: galleri
To: Chewi
Subject: RE: RE: RE: Clarification on primary rules
Date: Apr 5th, 03:26
Message Body:

It should be wrong and unfortunatly the "spirit of the game" rules were removed after all the players complained. Sorry :(
----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
Something like what #330, #67, and #32 are doing. They're obviously working together.

----------------------- Original Message -----------------------

Ok explain what you mean a bit better.
----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
Is it against the rules for multiple countries to team up and work together?

You won't get deleted (in game) for posting on the B&S board. Obviously if you break a forum rule on the B&S board you could get deleted/banned from the forums. We generally do not take action against people in game for what they do on the forums. We reserve the right to do so, but it would have to be something rather extreme on the level of a DDOS attack or something.

The mods have a forum with which we communicate amongst ourselves and the admin.

We normally don't delete cross server nor will you get deleted for suiciding on a mod's country no matter what the circumstances are. However we will delete cross server under a very limited set of circumstances.

I don't play a country, but I can promise you that if I did and you were to suicide on my country all that would happen is I would probably send you plenty of spam in game :P

The "spirit of the rules" thing is going to be subjective. While I am sure that no one would be so petty, I would advise against any kind of organized attempts in game to provoke us on this issue.

If you feel you have been unfairly deleted or disagree with a moderator action, please message me about it if it isn't alliance server. If it is alliance server message qz or pang when he comes back. Although I have mod access to everything I generally do not moderate any server other than alliance unless people are away or a someone has made a specific request.

no one has remarked on "AB KR" yet. C'mon guys, you are letting me down=)

who threatened bots? It was IMP that killed him, not 1 person...

Titanium.

ahhh, i remember now

lol

Hahaha, Mr. Titanium has been at it a long time I see, landfarms, multies, leeches, I knew about, he runs bots too? Nice fella, hope you get into that 40 mill club soon.

One of Seth's aliases will be by shortly to confirm.

no, thats a different Titanium

Again, not such thing as AB kills, therefore there can't be an "AB KR" on anyone...

Everyone is Seth and Seth is everyone. In fact, you are him.

I this case, it is a dif Titanium ;)

Heh.. love double standards

I think this goes without saying, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Sure, but you have Chewi explicitly told coordination couldn't be deleted for. Then you have him deleted for it. You have him only doing it against someone else who was coordinating and ruining rounds to begin with. Then you have that person still undeleted, while Chewi is deleted for doing the same thing back. That's the long and the short of it, I don't ascribe ill intentions like Rockman does but at the same time it's impossible for me to imagine the rules being enforced in a more baffling way than this.

Venus has not been deleted yet, so I stand by my assertion. It has been pointed out that he's just as guilty as the countries that have been deleted.

So clearly its not the ingame actions which caused the deletion.

The rules are not evenly being enforced. There is something causing some players to get deleted for actions which other players are allowed to get away with. Actions which had been verified to not be a deletable offense by the very people who got deleted.

The simple conclusion is that I was right the first time. Chewi and the other two did not get deleted for ingame actions.

I predicted this BEFORE it happened. I said that the moderators were actively working to fluff the game up. Deleting people for taking on cheaters, using actions that they were told were not a deletable offense? That's a damn good job at deliberately fluffing the game up.

Why don't you just delete my primary and alliance countries while you're at it? Let people know how far gone this game is. Let everyone know how corrupt, incompetent, and petty you are. Either that, or stop being complete fluffing idiots.

If you're going to wreck the game, don't go halfway. Just delete every single Laf country right now. You're not fooling us anymore. We know you are corrupt, we know you're trying to fluff up the game. Just break the damn thing already.

*grabs the popcorn and beer*

If your going to delete them for coordinating then you must delete all other obvious coordination going on in the server. If you'd like I can point them out easily and even provide the news logs. Gallery mods primary, gallery doesn't like Rockman. See a pattern here?

They were deleted for doing an organized KR (or whatever you call it for AB's);

were the others doing that? from what i understand they weren't doing KR's; i have no idea what they were doing; it's not my call, and it's up to the moderators to decide where to draw the line.

However if you continue to spew this anti-admin rhetoric, we will have to respond appropriately.

AB Run, or, pancake run, parking lot run, smash buildings run, smash ego run, jack up yer pride run :p

It's been posted in this thread what they were doing Qz.

You've let cheaters run rampant, and then you delete those who stand up to cheaters. Do you expect me to kiss your ass for that?

@Rockman: vigilantism is only ok if you don't break the game rules. Cheating to punish cheaters is not ok.

But it *is* okay to be the original cheaters? Do you realize this is very alienating for the player base, to see those guys get away with it once again, and then to see people giving up their rounds to punish them getting deleted?

Are you saying just be more sneaky about it next time and nothing can be done, even if everyone can see what's happening?

Are you saying the enforcement policy has officially changed since two rounds ago when three countries teamed up to all send missiles right after each other? Since two rounds ago when galleri told Chewi there was nothing she could do about it?

The extra ironic thing is that the ABs they got deleted for were pretty ineffective. :P

I mean galleri specifically told the guy she deleted that she couldn't delete for that, then deleted the same guy two rounds later without any announcement of a change and without anyone else's abuses being deleted, only his. The more I think about it the more absurd it seems. Anyway... something to chew over, I'll try to shut up and leave it to y'all now. And once again, I do agree with deleting for that kind of stuff. But not if it can't be done with a modicum of common sense. You only deleted the guys who pushed back and not the guys who pushed first.

We asked if what they were doing what cheating, and we were told it wasn't. Then we do it, and we are told that it is cheating.

MAKE UP YOUR fluffING MIND.

I know you're not talking to me. If I see incompetence, at any level, I'll call it out. If you don't like it prove me wrong. If you cant prove me wrong eat your words.

I think if you actually look into why some people are upset about this you'll see the light!

P.S. I have nothing against you and I like you but don't try to chime in when you obviously don't know the whole story :)

Well I don't know the whole story; it's not the admins jobs to do that; so stop painting it like "we're ruining the game"; I don't moderate, and don't care to moderate; We let the mods set mod policy. If you have specific moderation problems, bring them up with martian in private.

qzjul, you are an administrator. You are the only active admin remaining, because Pang has announced he wasn't going to be very active. If the moderators are not doing their job, does it not fall to you to see what is going on, why the player base are unhappy, and at the minimum ask Martian to find out what is going on and report back to you?

It is your game after all, and all you are doing is shrugging off the responsibility as the only remaining active game admin.

Neither Martian nor Galleri has provided any explanation as to why Chewi and his friend got deleted, but Vivanick and his friend did not get deleted, particularly when proof and quotes have been provided that:

A) Galleri has said that coordinating countries cannot be deleted.


B) Numerous occasions in the past few months, with coordinated attacks from multiple countries were not deleted as per galleri's assrtion


(Click the "posted" to jump to quote)

C) It has been confirmed that all these cases were reported by multiple people, so they were not "unnoticed" because they were not reported. You have further confirmed in this very thread that every report lodged in game is recorded in the database, so you can also easily verify that these reports do exist, and their resolutions by the mods are also recorded.

D) Martian nor galleri has not explained why there are double standards in country deletions, but has instead chosen to post here and here



(Click the "posted" to jump to quote)

neither of which address the issue, but there has been ample time (close to a day) to reach a decision, or even post that a decision is being decided on.

============================

Qzjul, you need to step in and do the right thing. Clarify the rules. Either delete them all or not delete any and revert the deletions.

You are an administrator. It is thus your responsibility to manage the moderators - including when Martian, the top moderator, has decided not to give any response as to why we have double standards for game deletions as proven above in (A) (B) and (C).

It is disheartening to see an admin keep posting "it is not my responsibility", "I don't moderate", "don't care to moderate", "I have nothing to do with moderation", "I have no idea what they were deleted for", "I don't know the whole story", etc, and to keep deflecting the issue back to "the mods".

That's a very "I'm going to rule with an iron fist" attitude.

I also think they've made their case abundantly clear, but what's most upsetting is that there is a clear double standard here. If rules are going to be enforced, they have to be clear and consistent. Not "up to discretion", that's when you get obvious fluff ups like these.

Were the first ones doing a KR? GS/BR/AB?

I can respect that. And to clarify I've never said you were ruining the game. I find it very disappointing we can't have some fair and clean competition on any server in the game! I guess some things never change, it's not like it's ever been fair competition on any level of this game since 1999 when Mehul made it so maybe I'm just crazy for thinking it.

+100

Qz can you tell the mods that announcements for rule changes in primary should be made in a nice topped thread in primary talk and not buried in some post in tourney talk?